Newbie: Electric cooking stove - device for measuring and switching?

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Hi everyone,

I’m totally new to pimatic and got my first system up only a few days ago - but I’m already a huge fan of pimatic!
My programming skill can best be described by “able to reproduce, adapt and modify given code on a basic level”.
But I’m eager to learn more…
Currently, I’m on a basic PI3 with some AVM fritz! devices and Amazon Dash Buttons. My next project is to attach a Homeduino board.

Besides, I’m looking for a possibility to manage a standard electric cooking stove.
Dealing with a switching/measuring power of 3x16A, my goal is to

1. At least switch all 3 phases off
2. better be able to switch them on again
3. for bonus: see the current power drain

Target scenario is the classical “Did I leave the cooker on?!” when I left the house. So at least I want to be able to switch the cooker off.

A “bad” solution would be 3 independent actors, each capable of 16A and placed somewhere. My preferred solution would be top-hat-rail-sized “device” in the fuse box that would do the job.

As far as I did my research, I need an acutator like this http://www.fmt-shop.de/schalttechnik/ip-schaltaktor-hutschiene-tcr-ip-4.html (sorry, could only find a shop in German and the actuator is only capable of 10A).
If I found one like that with 16A, I could at least set up the “switch on/off” with my basic programming skills by the probe plugin.

Does anyone have an idea for a “working out of the box” actuator that would fit my needs?

hey wolfpack! nice to hear about your first steps with pimatic!
first of all - think about risks when manipulating your stove / stoves electrics!!

well, the linked device is really expensive. you could do another thing. you can try to use an esp8266 chip with ESPimatic and 3 SSR relays for example. you should be able to switch the oven on and off.
but no warranty for any electrical issues at all …

some links just for research
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1PCS-SSR50DA-SSR-50DA-Manufacturer-50A-ssr-relay-input-3-32VDC-output-24-380VAC-good-quality/32697972076.html

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1-st-cke-einphasig-SSR-35-MM-din-schiene-feste-solid-state-relais-clip-clamp-2/32674635378.html

here’s our espimatic forum
https://forum.pimatic.org/category/25/espimatic

Hi leader21,

thank you for your ideas - as you already said, manipulating devices with high power consumption is a risky thing.

So I will definitly prefer “no solution” over “clumsy solution”. If the house is burning down because I let the stove on, the insurance will pay - as long as I don’t mess with some selfmade, self-installed electronics connected to that stove. I’m willing to invest a little more for this application to maintain the insurance.

Another idea that came to my mind would be a combination of this contactor and a FritzDECT-outlet for the trigger voltage. This would be two out-of-the-box-devices with a low risk of electrical complications.

@ All: I’m happy for all kind of input that helps me to keep my ideas spinning…

I guess the most sophisticated would be KNX/EIB actuator somehow interfaced with pimatic. Sadly we don’t have a KNX/EIB plugin yet.

https://www.eibmarkt.com/cgi-bin/eibmarkt.storefront/58f6238e002a64d627604debae5006b0/Product/View/N760097

I think the following Homematic device may also do: https://files.elv.com/Assets/Produkte/9/918/91836/Downloads/Funk-Schaltaktor-4-fach-Hutschienenmontage_91836_Produktdatenblatt.pdf

Note, however, I don’t think this will work with pimatic ootb, but I think there is better chance of getting an homematic integration than knx/eib at the moment (unless someone with the necessary skill and test equipment is ready to contribute).

@mwittig said in Newbie: Electric cooking stove - device for measuring and switching?:

I think the following Homematic device may also do: https://files.elv.com/Assets/Produkte/9/918/91836/Downloads/Funk-Schaltaktor-4-fach-Hutschienenmontage_91836_Produktdatenblatt.pdf

Note, however, I don’t think this will work with pimatic ootb, but I think there is better chance of getting an homematic integration than knx/eib at the moment (unless someone with the necessary skill and test equipment is ready to contribute).

ATTENTION !! Don’t use this device with more than 1 single Phase ! 230V ~1 ph only !

from eQ3 Manual:
Der Aktor schaltet bis zu 4 angeschlossene Verbraucher mit einer Gesamt-Schaltleistung von 5750 W (230V/25 A) bzw. 3680 W (230 V/16 A) je Kanal.

and @Wolfpack very important info for your solution

Am Gerät darf für die Spannungsversorgung und für die Versorgung der Außenleiteranschlüsse der Schaltkanäle nur dieselbe Phase verwendet werden

agree with @DDNRN you have to check that you can use different phases. You definitely need to let your electrician install the system and check it.

@DDNRN said in Newbie: Electric cooking stove - device for measuring and switching?:

Am Gerät darf für die Spannungsversorgung und für die Versorgung der Außenleiteranschlüsse der Schaltkanäle nur dieselbe Phase verwendet werden

As this info is not included in the product data sheet here is the reference to the manual

For reference: https://files.elv.com/Assets/Produkte/9/917/91750/Downloads/91750_HM-LC-Sw4-DR_UM_GE_151208_um.pdf

@ All: thank you for your input!

I definitly need a 400V proof device as the stove will use three-phase-current, draining 400V.
Looking at the available devices, it seems like an old-school analog contactor combined with a pimatic-compatible actor for the trigger voltage would be the most adequate solution.

But I’m not in a hurry, it’s more a nice-to-have feature one day. So if there is no good solution yet, I’ll wait patiently.

On my journey, I also stumbled across this funny device:
http://www.seniorenfachhandel.de/Technik/Automatische-E-Herd-Abschaltung.html
(Sorry, German again)
Can anyone identify the used components? Is it a simple contactor like the one I mentioned before, combined with a timer?

I think you need a Drehstromschützrelais / Leistungsschützrelais and have this switched by another actuator relais. For example the industrial-grade relay Benedict K3-22ND is switched with 230V and can switch three-phases with 32 amps / 11 kW (different models available). Anyhow, like @thex suggested you should consult an electrician and also let him finally do the installation!

• http://www.benedict.at/files/documents/9766768-Schuetze-Contactors-K3-10ND—K3-22ND.pdf

@Wolfpack said in Newbie: Electric cooking stove - device for measuring and switching?:
…

http://www.seniorenfachhandel.de/Technik/Automatische-E-Herd-Abschaltung.html
(Sorry, German again)
Can anyone identify the used components? Is it a simple contactor like the one I mentioned before, combined with a timer?

Should be a relais like this (if you take a closer look to the picture)
http://www.tme.eu/de/details/22.34.0.230.4320/installationsrelais/finder/

You could use this if you want, it’s maybe available also with other coil voltages to drive with an arduino via mosfet for example.
Same main contactor but with 12Vdc coil >> http://de.farnell.com/finder/22-34-0-012-4320/relais-4pst-no-250vac-25a/dp/1889106
For me it seems not to be a problem if electic modification in your fuse board is only to add the power relays between the normal line to the stove. For shure the mounting of the relays itself has to be done by an electrician to meet insurance requirements, but the trigger for this relays is not a relevant point and maybe done by yourself.